Saber Marionette does anybody else...?(spoiler)

Hate it? Heck, no. None of the series besides the original J were as well done IMO, but J to X was good, nonetheless.

Don't hate me for picking at your listings, here.

What is original nowadays? The entire precept of SMJ hinges on an anime cliche of robots who are near-human and their love with mankind.

It's a powerful plot device, and one I was gearing to write in fanfiction before I was told it was already in J to X (before I saw that series, almost every idea I had ended up being done in some way for it...:s )

Lastly, to bite at amnesia, you'd also have to stab at Faust's vie for world domination in J - not entirely original, although the circumstances and his motive did help, I agree. You'd also have to nullify the three marionettes fighting over Otaru, for that's a commonality in many popular anime.

Would you believe I get told SMJ is childish by some people? I do. It is certainly true that the series has some very lovable characters that kids would take up immediately, but they likely fail to grasp the full underlying woven story and emotional influence.

I won't deny the fact that J to X was geared for a younger audience than its predecessor. In fact, the simplification of character design was intended to appeal more to the youth. But I still think they'd have trouble maintaining interest when J to X enters the more serious storylines during its second half.

And he wasn't before? I think the character transferred well.

I like the cold-hearted, evil guy more, too. But the "good boy" is truly the real Faust.

Yes, but still a good trick. They don't re-use old tricks for nothing. Just think of what could have happened had the clone exceeded the original... ^^

Tack on Akashi and you hit all the character development/filler episodes. These do take on a role of reference in the later stages, but are almost like sidestories. It takes some repeated viewing to truly appreciate them, though they still remain my least favorite episodes in the entire SMJ run.

You found that story lame? I enjoyed it. It was great to finally have a worthy opponent appear in J to X after all the above filler episodes.

A "necessary evil". I'm glad this is the only recap episode, and only about a third of it is recycled.

The point here was to get the new viewers of SMJ to understand what's happened if they hadn't seen the first series. Since J to X followed two years after J, it's quite possible there were new joinees. Be thankful the episode had some plot behind it besides being a full clip show. I've seen shows do way worse.

I know it's a bt off-base to the subject, but can you tell me which ones you did like from it?

Yeah, I didn't like the ending much, either. It was so final, and the resulting three children under Otaru's care was very farfetched. If they planned to follow the sacrifice bit that J did, they should have gone all the way, or just not done it.

Again, the problem was made with the alternate lives the fit of amnesia created. Had they not gone after Faust, we might have ended up with strewn characters instead - not a very good solution, either.

I think that's what my gripe was with the end of J to X. It took the standard reset formula that J started with, mixed it up beyond repair, and spat out an ending of finality. With the three marionettes reborn, it marks the end of that Era.

They went to stop Hess, but their efforts were all for naught. Had they done nothing, he would have crashed on the other side of the wormhole and seen that his dwelled upon hatred was wrongly founded. How were they to know, though?

Their efforts did help him find peace, however. And it was Hess who somehow returned them to Terra II in the end.

I agree, but I still group J to X on par with J Again. SMJ is fantastic, the others are less so, but still help quell the cravings I would have for continuation.

 

Re: Re: Re: does anybody else...?(spoiler)

LOL, love the smileys.

I know the feeling. After being so used to the characters, they seemed entirely different after the memory loss. Lime wasn't her childlike self. Cherry wasn't more than a babysitter. Bloodberry became a sensitive wuss. It didn't feel the same without an "Otaru, I love you" every 3 minutes, or a Bloodberry/Cherry fight scene...

And talk about burning your bridge after crossing it. After leading two lives, there's no way it would ever feel the same after that plot changeup.

They're at least acceptable. Grab a peek at the manga sometime. The proportions in there are insane. Bloodberry's chest is almost as big as her entire body there.

I actually thought she had a reduction done in J to X. I'll have to do a comparison sometime...

As for Saber dolls, not sure again. I think Tiger remained the same size. I really hated Luchs' redone Gartland uniform in J to X, though. The pantyhose, I think. Or perhaps that huge stupid bowtie.

Hehe, but funny to me. Some of his best performances are in J to X. Like his festival appearance in costume wearing his "special item".

He can't, eh?

Before receiving these memories, he was an innocent "good boy" who fell in love with Tiger. That was still inside of him, but overpowered.

With the brainwash, he inherited all his previous clones' memories. That is what hardened him, and clouded his mind. He really wasn't purely evil, but misguided. "Warped Sincerity" as one of J's episode titles puts it. After years and years of working towards rescuing Lorelei, it became an obsession and he lost sight of everything else. Faust alone would be the one to save her, at any cost.

And then, after his grand plan failed and he felt he had nothing left to live for or care about, a broken Tiger made her appearance and reminded him that there was more for him. He realized at that moment how Otaru had succeeded where he failed - through love.

That was originally what drove Faust to save Lorelei, but in all his preparations, he lost sight of that generation after generation. And at that moment, embracing Tiger, he realized he had been wrong all along.

The circus tightrope guy who looks like Otaru.

1) The intelligent Ponta-Kun was comic relief. "Boy, he's smart, no wonder he wears glasses!" Yeah, it was kinda lame.

2) Otaru was more like a Batman, with all the gadgets, actually. It was again farfetched to have him personally take on so many soldiers himself without injury. But it was a good action sequence for me, at least.

3) Japoness-Gar wasn't completely destroyed. Recall that Hess used it with his ship launch near the end of J to X.

Chobits 9, 18 and 27. I really had a gripe with that series throwing out a recap every 9 episodes.

The original Tamasaburo and Baiko "died" aboard the Mesopotamia. They were rebuilt afterwards. They were advanced combat sabers, but had no Otome Kairo, so I don't think you can truly "kill" them. The rebuild is why after J they no longer are Hikozaemon and the Shogun Ieyasu.

I'm afraid it is. I'm with you on not liking the ending, though.

Lotta peeps hate the Hess. I don't mind him. He was a good antagonist.

Flip J to X and R in that lineup, and there's mine.

Likewise!

 

Ooh! I love SMJ questions and these are good ones!

I'm not a master, I'm just obsessive.

I'm going to assume you mean after he was killed by the Saber Dolls. After all, he was cloned up until that point.

Afterwards, with the Shogun and his advisor transplanted into Tamasaburo and Baiko, one of the council members does comment that Ieyasu had no intent on cloning himself and instead had his personality transferred to Tamasaburo.

There is no clearcut answer. Logic dictates that the Shogun only cloned himself through the ages in order to ensure that the Maiden project was successful. Much of the details of Lorelei's existence, what really happened with the Mesopotamia, and the purpose behind the Otome Kairo were kept from the public. Only the Shogun, his advisor, and possibly a few other trusted persons knew any of it.

With Lime, Cherry, and Bloodberry's growth at the final stage, Ieyasu's lifelong task was near its end. With no time for a final clone, he had himself carried over to Tamasaburo for the final stretch. His final moments are aboard the Mesopotamia where his task is over.

On another tangent, you may be overlooking the possible fact that the Shogun has indeed already cloned himself. Compare shots of Otaru to the young Ieyasu from the flashbacks. They have a striking semblance, don't they?

Actually, this one develops a bit. Take a look at Otaru's job roles from J to J Again to J to X.

In J, he seems to have very low-end jobs - he sells fish, candy, makes umbrellas. The one time he did cash in for a higher job was after the main computer incident, and then he wasn't getting his fair share, being used by that greedy talent agent.

In J Again, his job has actually scaled up. He's a ferryman. He appears to have a more steady job, and the marionettes' Restaurant business earns some cash flow as well.

In J to X, we see he has achieved a higher societal position. He's consulted about the festival as well as the forest cultivation for the new park. Otaru's calling the shots, rather than being a manservant. The only time we see him work his heart out is when he needs extra money fast for train tickets.

So, despite his improving job conditions, why is he not getting some government funding or rewards, then? It's the way Otaru is. Take a look at his attitudes, particularly in the first episode of J. He doesn't approve of society's reliance on marionettes to do work. Whenever it comes down to something that needs to be done, he volunteers himself to the task even if he's less suited than his three marionettes. He's a take charge kind of guy, and he can't stand the life of lazing around.

They can't be, or else the countries would have done something about them by now.

Pontas aren't fully fleshed out anywhere, but we've discussed this on the board before and had some ideas brought up:

1) Pontas have a very long lifespan, and it takes a very, very long time to grow to full size

OR

2) Pontas are peaceful by nature, and aren't violent except when threatened or protecting their young

OR

3) The large Ponta we see in J is actually some kind of mutation, and not the norm

Currently, I support both 1 and 2 in combination.

The castle transformed into Japoness Gar, meaning the castle no longer existed as it once did. However, the castle was rebuilt - see the episode following Japoness Gar's appearance.

After Obiichi Soemon chose to side with Gartland, betraying Japoness as Rubens, he later also gave up his allegiance to Gartland when his disobediance became clear. Giving up Lime's Otome Kairo, and his only chance to see Koyuki smile "just once", Soemon also gave up living in any society. He made himself an outcast of both Japoness and Gartland. Gartland, for failing them. Japoness, through betrayal.

As we see during Lorelei's speech in SMJ 25, Obiichi has started a new life once again. It appears he has taken up residence somewhere in Terra II's wilds.

lol. 26. Really only 23 if you skip the clipshows.

 

Two separate characters. Not the same person. If you follow the anime, you see that both have very different histories, and can't possibly be the same.

Yang Ming takes Obiichi's place in the early novel story that the anime is based on, later continuing his involvement in the later part of the story. Soemon does not exist in the novels.

 

how could you hate J to X!??

well they made J to X a totally love it or hate it...
I haven't found an inbetween

gotta love cherry

 

I found it inbetween.

Some elements and story catches in J to X were very well done, but I found a number of portions very weak. Not so much that I dislike the series, but enough to grant it mediochre status from me. The focus and pace is jumbled at times.