Hey there, luvweaver. Nice to see you again. You raised some good points. I think the primary reasons Amon, Neph and Baph went after Sandman so hard is because 1) He says that the Bible is 100% true and we should take every word literally and 2) He seems to believe that the more you type, the more true you are, hence his filling two entire posts to the max. (EDIT - Oop, forgot the fallacious evidence and the ad-homs as well)
Welcome back. As Baph has said, we went after Sandman for his ludicrous belief that the Bible is a scientifically accurate book. As far as faith and morals go, while it does have some things which do not sit well with me (or indeed any other humanist), it does have some good stuff as well. While the really good stuff (Jesus' golden rule primarily) is hardly exclusive to Christianity, it is still there. Just as the Pope and many other religions have said. Thank you for acknowledging this. *leans back in chair and sighs happily* While I completely agree with you on this, there -are- those who insist that the Bible is to be taken literally and that yes, God has commited the atrocities attributed to him. I doubt any rational person could accept this though. Not a problem. And this is precisely why people who insist 100% that their interpretation of God is perfect irk me. It's entirely faith-based, so if you chose to believe in a god, goddess, or gods, go ahead, but to push your stance on others is bigoted and offensive. Well, as far as Gilgamesh and all that goes... see while there are some other flood stories, myths tend to get around and "evolve" into others. There was a period where the Hebrews were in heavy contact with the Babylonians if not outright assimilated if I recall correctly, and a fair chunk of Babylonian myth ended up altered and incorporated into Hebrew myth (read carefully and you'll notice Taimat in a modified form). Furthermore, that still doesn't wipe clean the load of scientific errors inherent in a global flood theory. Localized floods? Sure, those happen all the time, even today. But a global flood is a bit much.
Thanks! Anyway I remember this creationist book with cartoons, where a scientist said: "So 6 days could mean anything". Some guy in the class asks: "So they could be 6 billion years?" "Sure!" he says. Another guy asks: "Could they mean 6 microseconds?" "Yes, of course!" he adds. Then some guy says: "Could they mean 6 days?" At this point the teacher goes mad and yells "SIX DAYS NO!!!" Heh, that made me laugh. The book in question is called "The Answers Book", a little pink book promoting creation science. Anyway to add more wood to the fire: Those who in the first place go for creation-science, are deluded by the false assumption of Sola Scriptura, invented by this guy called Luther, around 1521. Since then more and more denominations, sects and cults have flourished around the world, every year more radical than the ones before them (Jack T Chick, anyone?). Yes, that's why catholics call it "The Great Flood", not "The Global Flood". Anyway this would be a great debate. Did the Great Flood happen? Ok. Cya l8r guys!
Well, probably he was recruited by one of those fundamentalist groups who teach with indoctrination. Those groups teach that whoever questioned their teachings (not denied, just questioned), was of the devil or something - so the group members try to convince other people in the same way they were convinced a few years ago. That's how cults work, and that's how cult members look and act somewhat like clones. NOTE: I'm NOT accusing anyone, It's just an assumption. I'm just sharing personal experiences. Still, Sandman does have very good points. The Bible is a great source of wisdom, and I can see *hints* of evolution in the account of Genesis (I don't remember if it was the yahwist or the elohist tradition, but I recall reading first that fish were created, later the animals with 4 legs, and such. I'm not sure about this, but i have the impression it was that way.
Tracts!!! Those are hilarious! Chick is a scourge of humanity and I will not shed a single tear when he passes away, save for the unintentional comedy his bigoted, facist, racist and sexist ramblings inspire. Did a flood happen? Sure, I have no reason to doubt that one did. They seem to happen with some regularity in these times. However I would not be surprised if a factor in this seemingly increased frequency is simply due to the fact that humanity is spread across more of the globe and hence more likely to run into something big like that. Did it happen globally? Of course not. Was an ark built that held 2 of every animal? Oh heavens no! Thats preposterous for reasons I've posted. Perhaps some loon nobody believed decided to build a boat in a landlocked area "just in case" or he could tell when a flood was going to happen or something, and he then boarded his boat when the rain started. Or perhaps the ark was entirely a myth. Either way, whatever happened was nowhere near the significance attributed to it.
it could be an exageration too. i mean, when you tell someone about something you've gone through, you embelish it a bit right? well, maybe it just kinda, stuck. maybe 2 of every animal in the area was grabbed cause the region was going to pot? but after wards, when the tale was being retold, someone exagerated to children/grandchildren "yup, before you were born, the area was going downhill, bothways, and god had to flood the world." world = the little area that these people knew.
That is what I've always thought too. After all, everyone's "world" is made up of their neighbors, friends, and the little part of the Earth that they all live in. So, from Noah's perspective, maybe he did have 2 of every animal in the world. However, certain things in the Bible do need to be taken on faith. For example, I'm a little tired of people questioning Moses' parting of the Red Sea. While it is true that miracles should be questioned, events such as the parting of the Red Sea were acts of God and cannot be logically explained. At least, I haven't heard any logical explainations for it. Did that make sense? I'm sorry if it didn't. I really need to get more sleep...
...So we should question a global flood, but not parting seas? Why some miracles and not others? Er... anyway, the red sea parting CAN be logically explained - very strong winds. Now, whether or not God did it or it was just a wonderful coincidence or if it even happened when they "needed" it to is up for debate.
Sorry, that last post was kind of confusing, wasn't it? What I was trying to say was that some things in the Bible can be explained logically while others cannot. Also, some people overanalyse the Bible and try to explain everything as being a natural occurance. It just kind of gets on my nerves is all. Sorry it came out sounding so contradictory. I had 2 hours of sleep last night and I'm having trouble focusing. I guess it could have been strong winds. I do believe that God had a hand in it though. But that's just me.
There are just some things you can't explain with logic or our scientific theories! How exactly can very strong winds split apart a large river long enough to let thousands of people cross along the bottom of it?
It's not terribly hard. Tell ya what, pour a saucer of water, then take a straw and start blowing. Edit: Of course theres no guarantee the bible was 100% true when it said they did that either, unless you'd also like to believe God went around killing first born kids a few nights prior. Secondary edit: http://www.sptimes.ru/archive/times/936/top/t_11445.htm So what was that you were saying about some things not being explainable by science?
There is another explanation that I was given when I attended scriptures class in high school (yes, I actually payed attention). The word used in the Bible that was translated as "Red" in "Red Sea" could also have been translated "reed". Towards the Northern part of the Red Sea, about where the Suez is right now, there was a marsh-type area. When there was a low tide, the water level was low enough to be able to cross, but was uncrossable otherwise. This was just the explanation given to me, so I have no idea about its validity, but it's an explanation nonetheless.
this just doesn't make sense... how can you say that there are things we cannot understand through science? all science is is the attempt to understand, basically through experimentation and through studying available information. just because so far, we have not been able to study information relating to certain perhaps 'unexplainable' acts does by no means mean we never will. 500 years ago men laughed at the idea of taming lightning...
its debateable but in the end i'd say yes. im one of those skeptical people but i don't in fact believe theirs a god. i those to sentences i think i went back on the firs thing i said. :sweat2: what i Odd one i am. -- Captain. :sweat2:
i think he does. all the miracles that happen in this world are because of him. if you have a problem with that too D*** bad.
How would you know? For all you know it could have all been a hallucination. People tend to get like that after a life or death situation. The mind sometimes lets you see what you want to see.....i think.
First, I think someone needs to be a bit more coherent with their posts (not gonna be saying any names though, so you're in the clear, NeoNoodle). And... toeskater... okay... so... prove it. How can we be sure that all those miracles aren't just because of, well... luck? And if all the miracles are God's work, then who's at fault for all the ****-ups and bad ****, in your opinion?
